https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.7202234,-79.4851867,17z

Hi, guys....This is the results of the test that I did for Carl. Did it this morning(July12/15). Tested coverage comparison between BETS and Part 15 transmitters.

The link at the top should, I HOPE!, show my area. I'll assume it does.

The map shows the immediate area where I am in Toronto. The star, if it's there on map, will show my house(55 Rory Rd). Used measuring distance on google map to get exact distance in feet from my transmitter location to various points.

With the Decade CM-10 operating at BETS-1, in the car I start to pick up station just as I turn off Keele onto falstaff  as I approach Rainbow Park(605ft). From the other end of Rory Rd I start to get signal at 700Ft. Reception is like a local station along Rory Rd between Rainbow Park and Winscome Ave.(up and down street my street). Also hear station on the off ramp from the 401 to Keele(735 ft) although weak. Station also received perfect on Falstaff (next block south of Rory Rd) from Rainbow Park to Winscome. All houses on north and south sides of street on Falstaff would get perfect even with houses in between Rory and Falstaff. Also station is heard 2 streets to the south around Grovedale and Clubine(750ft) The distance on Rory Rd between Rainbow Park and Winscome is 560ft.

Then I took portable....the Geneva World radio which could possibly be the best FM reception you can get in a portable. Started walking around area. Signal was like the car up and down Rory Rd from Rainbow Park to Winscome and on Falstaff from Rainbow Park to Winscome. Also perfect signal on portable right up to townhouse complex opposite my house on north side of Rory(240ft). With portable didn't get as far down Rory Rd the other way as the car or couldn't really receive station walking around Rainbow Park. Also couldn't hear station on portable down at Grovedale and Clubine where I did in the car. But when I am at fringe areas with the portable I can be getting station but if I move 3ft to the left or right it's lost.....the reception areas are in pockets.

Now...I set up the Wholehouse 3 same spot operating at part 15 the way it came certified. There was a significant loss in coverage. In car, comming in from Keele didn't start to hear station until down Falstaff half way down block from Rainbow Park. Couldn't receive at all on Winscome betwwen Rory Rd and Falstaff and on Rory Rd beside the park. Only received station good on Rory Rd from 4 houses up and down street and not as good on Falstaff to the south. Didn't hear at all on the off ramp from the 401 to Keele. With portable(Geneva)....received out to street, up and down rory a couple of houses and across street but signal almost faded when I walked right up to the townhouses.

Then I did what Thelegacy wanted....I put on high power setting but changed nothing else...same stock 4" rubber duck antenna and found it close to the decade. Was a toss up as to which was better.

Now these tests were done where I am broadcasting all the time from the house and I am in the basement with the transmitter at the window about 2ft above ground. I know the ground around me is absorbing a lot of the signal and not all the radiated power gets out there. Also all the houses around hinder it also. If I were on the second floor 20ft above ground I'm sure the coverage would be better.

If on the map at the left bottom you can click to see satelite view so you can get a real picture of the landscape and and all the houses in my coverage area.

Well Carl, hopes this helps with what you were trying to do.

Oh yes, the Wholehouse was in mono and tried to see if any difference in stereo or mono but seemed the same.

Mark

Hi all,

  A few days ago I bought the Whole House 3.0 transmitter to start whatever station it is that I'll be broadcasting. With so many myths about Part 15 FM around, I decided to do some real world testing.

  NOTE: I did not put the device in Canadian mode. Ever.

  This was brand new, out of the box from Amazon. Not used, so as not to have it accidentally set to Canadian mode. No lightning bolt on the LCD panel, and "US" in the upper left corner.

  There's no real need to go into where I live in detail: it's a suburb. Trees, houses, parks.

  I put the transmitter on my second floor window sill (window closed) and just ran iTunes off my old iPhone 5. I set the tuner to a known, empty frequency (I checked) and went around with the car.

  You know that myth about how Part 15 FM only goes 200 feet? Total lie. The distance from my house to the farthest corner is 425 feet (south). Strong signal. Past that, to about 800 feet in the second block, I lost the signal completely.

  So, I drove around the block and went perpendicular to the first street I drove down (east). So now the vector from my house to the street I'm driving down is south east, moving east. Strong signal to 400-500 feet, spotty to about 800 feet, and then dead until I picked it up VERY faintly around 950ish feet.

  So, back to my house, and now I'm driving west. Strong signal about 600 feet out, and then faded to 815 feet where I had to turn.

  This completely backs up my math from my post a few weeks ago.

  Did the same test with my wife's car - same results with very slight variations.

  Someone here (theLegacy? ArtisanRadio?) said that the WH3 should be able to go 800 feet. It's true.

  I will not be testing Canadian mode. There's really no point to it for THIS test. I just wanted to see how far a Part 15 FM transmitter really goes. Besides, someone tested that for us already.

  I also don't have equipment to do any kind of field strength tests.

  So, there you go. Myth....BUSTED

OK I had people wondering how far the SainSonic AX-05B actually went on Low power mode -48dbm as they called the Rockline. Well I went outside my house with a Digital boom box and at low power I could not really cover much more than two to three rooms away without noise. I could barely hear the signal on my front porch holding my hand at the top of the antenna to make it come in better. I could hear the signal with some pockets between my house and the driveway and the neighbors house (very noisy definitely not usable outside and I had to hold my hand the whole time to the tip of the antenna to get the signal in). Far less than the Whole House FM Transmitter 3.0 on regular power mode and maybe more than the crappy Belkin but not much and its questionable. From the reports of the Whole House FM Transmitter 3.0 the SainSonic's low power level would not get you in any sort of trouble as it won't even leave your house. Even High power is around 800 Ft to a Digital boom box. So myth busted that the low power of the Sainsonic AX-05B will get you busted because it is not even within part 15 FULL allowable limits. So if you want an adjustable transmitter where sometimes you want 15-20 foot range only and anywhere between 800 feet to questionable ¼ (GPS said 0.06 of a mile) again that was with a very good car Radio with a whip antenna on top of a SUV I think this transmitter will work for many. There are times when you Don't want to go outside your house I can count many times for me. Now I can run the ALPB meeting through my boom box and if I have to walk away for a sec I can take the boombox and have the transmitter at low power. The range is so low at that level that if I didn't have a clear frequency or a temperature inversion happens I could transmit on 87.9 (But have to reprogram the transmitter for that nad its questionable probably won't).  I hope finally the Anti FM's will stop with the bad rap against this revised transmitter.  It may not be certified anymore maybe because SainSonic had too many versions before they got their sh*t together and done it right.  They should have done it right the first time I agree with that.  But please this transmitter can't transmit out of a paper bag at low power.

This topic might be of interest to some of you. After all in an off beat way we were mentioned and an opinion was given about our little petition.

http://www.broadcastengineering.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5168

Bruce.

It has come to my realization that I am well equipped to do an "FM Transmitter Shootout".  I have owned and operated a Potomac FIM-71 unit for more than 20 years, and just this week through a fluke of being in the right place at the right time scored a ZTechnology R-506 complete with the GPS interface and many other fine accessories.  These two devices are those actually used by the FCC when checking for illegal FM stations.  I don't own a vintage PC to run the software for the R-506 so I couldn't do on screen mapping like the FCC does when they're busting a perp, but I'm actually quite over equipped to take precise field intensity measurements from FM transmitters.  Would be quite simple to set up a few and do the measurements at 3 meters and see what they actually generate. 

I have zero experience with FM Part 15 transmitters. However it appears most of them look pretty much like a small transistor radio and have small supplied antennas that are required for their certification. I don't know that any of them talk about grounding systems or any other complex and varied installation quirks so a test should be pretty straightforward. Unlike the AM transmitters where there are a lot of variables and modulation ability can have an effect on coverage. 

Two problems I see.  I don't HAVE any of these, and doing an accurate test would require new, stock units purchased (not provided) for the test.  If you ask for one they just may tweak it before sending it out.  And the other issue is once I get setup, I'd probably waste a lot of time doing audio tests, etc to see which ones sound best in stock configuration. 

Hmm.  I just get these thoughts when I buy new toys. 

Damn my curiosity.

So, if I were to do this, which certified FM Part 15 transmitters would be the choices for testing?  Nothing that's a kit, as that certainly would be a unit with variables just by the nature of assembly. 

I might even publish actual numbers.  

Tim in Bovey

Read this on Timinbovey's post to my surprise.

They have 50 left and are away till Aug 2/15 but now may be the chance to get a lower price for them.

I'm thinking of getting an extra for back up if I can get for less.

Don't see if another model will be available at this price to replace this one but I will find out when they open again.

Mark

We are moving (how many times have I said

that before) and I am going through all sorts

of junk.

I found a "Mr. Microphone" type of FM transmitter-

actually - it's called a "Sing Along."  This is an extremely

low quality FM wireless mike for kids to scream into.  With

a little bit of luck, their screaming might come through a nearby FM

radio.  Maybe.  I have also (way in the past) taken old wireless mikes -

disconnected the mike element - and fed mono line audio into them

(somewhere in the circuit board) and have come up with very HIFI mono

short range FM transitters.  They didn't go far - but they sounded great.

I thought I could maybe do this with the "Sing Along."  with my budget -

any port in a storm.  Sometimes the "VFO" can be sort of stabilized - usually

after some drift.  Whatever.  

"Hey good lookin, we'll be back to pick you up later!"  Remeber that quote in

the old Mr. Microphone commercial?  You know.  Maybe like something "good"

was going to happen later?

Well, I started to test this thing - this toy "Sing Along" FM wireless mike.

Nothing good.  BLEHH!  What a piece of junk!  I didn't expect much, and I got even less!

A mixture of AM and FM, at very low deviation.  Maybe it's broken.  It's only

been sitting in the junk pile for 20 years!  More to follow - like - how far does

it go?  It is FCC certified, but the letters/numbers are too small for me to read.

To me, playing around with junk is fun.  

Speaking of fun, I found my old Ramsey FM-10.  I think I mentioned this transmitter

a few weeks ago.

A modulated free running oscillator, with a little RF "power" amplifier.  From

about 1992.  I put a fan on mine and a big bright red LED "power on" indicator.

(It's Cool!)

I don't know if it works, and I don't really care.  Either way, it's fun.  

I don't have the plastic "frequency adjust" (sp?)  tool. I had one a

couple of weeks ago and threw it away. (Man!)   It's also rigged for mono.  

I just turned off the 19 kHz pilot (crunch went my cutters) and there you

have it.   

More to follow, just for the silliness of it.

Brooce, WLP 1590 radio, relaying KDX at certain 

tmes of the day and night.

(Carl does all of the anouncements.  I just sit

there and eat popcorn and drink diet gingerale.  

The rest of the time I play my own weird music

that only I like. I have a toggle switch.  UP is

KDX.  DOWN is MY JUNK.  My junk.  Sounds like

Wally and Beaver Clever.  Here comes Eddie Haskell.

"Hi Mrs. Cleaver, what a nice hairdoo you have today.")   

Hi all,

  In trying to find an emtpy slot for what will eventually be a Part 15 FM station, I did some searching on the dial. Everyone says that radio-locator is the best way to find an open station, but it's not very accurate.

  I found a site called radiolineup which shows a list of stations in your area and the distance they are to you. I found seven clear stations where radio-locator said there were zero. Also, radio-locator said that 107.9 is open, but it's not - there's a new station there.

  So, I just wanted to let everyone know about this instead of blindly following what one site or the other said.

Test Parameters:

Freq: 92.1

Power: 0.5 Watt

Antenna: Rubber Duck

Gain/Loss: -5 dB

Transmitter Antenna Height: 1 meter

Receive Antenna height: 1.5 meters (car radio)

Same parameters but at 100 mW

I talked to Brian of Whole House FM Transmitter 3.0 and told him the Association of Low Power Broadcasters attempt to petition the FCC for increased field strength. However I told Brian that I want to make it mandatory that the extended part 15 transmitters scan before allowing a user to transmit on their intended frequency of choice. Brian said that he would have no issue with that but his concern was it would cost the company an unnecessary expense if I were to make it mandatory for the current part 15 service so that all transmitters have this fail safe built in. Then I said how about having two categories of transmitters? He was more willing to look into that and said he'd have to read all about what we are proposing before they jump on and support us. I gave him this site and the ALPB site and facebook page. He said he'd meet with the other members and discuss this. Next I asked him why some transmitters are putting out more range than others and rather or not they even try and go for the max on each transmitter? Well JUST AS I SUSPECTED they go UNDER the max in case at the mass production line one is over. I asked him if somehow we could get a transmitter that is 250 uV/m to test for range before asking for more because full legal power may already get us a mile. He said one would hafe to be manually tuned and he would have to get extra permission from the rest of the company and the equipment to fine tune the unit to that limit. And yes the output to the final of these units are JUST UNDER 100mW (you read right). So is 100mW legal into a rubber duck? Well as Brian and I talked and I mentioned that a Rubber Duck is no more than a leaky dummy load he laughed and said there is not much these antennas put out. Hence why it takes near 100mW to get the field strength. When they tune the transmitter they shot for close to 200 feet (even though legal field strength can go 800 feet or more). So is the Sainsonic legal? May be now that I found that this transmitter was near 100mW. I also talked about the 87.9 issue and he did say they had to stop allowing their transmitters to go down to 87.9 Mhz because it is not part 15.

I'm so happy I talked with him about this and got some answers. Now we know these transmitters are not 100% 250 uV/M. So we really need to get one that is and see what range we get. Also he did confirm that in an open field you'll get twice the range and height does matter. He was a very nice guy to talk with and it just goes to show that if you present yourself in a professional matter you'll get the answers you need. Now we have a little more data not just theories.

So I received the CM-10 today. Quick delivery and pleasant communications with the Decade folks over the past week or so, so that was all good.  In the box the transmitter with antenna attached, power supply and a stereo RCA to 1/8" stero jack cable. That was it. No instructions, no documentation, nothin'.

I plugged it in and it turned on to 98.5, so I left it there as that's completely blank around these parts. Plugged in audio from my iPhone (after finding a stereo 1/8 to 1/8 cable) turned on the kitchen radio, and turned up the audio input level until I heard distortion and backed it off till it sounded fine.  That was the extent of setup.

Took it out to my driveway.  This is on a small town street, and I'm right in the middle of the block. We have sidewalks. I set it up on a board set across two plastic sawhorses (nothing metal around for to screw with signals).  I had previously marked out the sidewalks at 3 meters, and then at 20 feet, 40 feet, 60 feet, etc all the way to 200 feet. Acutally measured, to the inch. Keep in mind today my plan wasn't for any sort of careful scientific testing, but here's what I know with my first experience ever with a Part 15 Fm transmitter (except for one of those little goofy things for in the car). 

I grabbed my Tecsun PL310 just because it has a handy Dbu scale on it. So here are the readings (no, i'm not going to try to make a pretty table of figures).  At 8 inches from the transmitter I had 60Dbu. at 3 meters I had 41 Dbu. I also had 41 Dbu at 20 feet.  At 40 feet it dropped to 34 dBu, at 60 feet it was 26 dbu, at 80 feet it was 17, at 100 feet it was 11, also 11 at 120 feet, at 140 feet it was down to 7 dBu, at 160 feet it was at 4dBu as well as at 180 feet still at 4dBu and at 200 feet the meter read 00 dBu but by carefully turning the radio I could still hear the signal.  Beyond 200 feet, basically nothing.  I could find spots where manipulating the radio antenna and spinning myself around slowly I could find spots where I could hear the signal but with noise.

Then I grabbed my Grundig S350DL and made the same trip.  This radio just has a signal strength meter of no real consequence, so I just walked down the line listening, and again by 200 feet it was basically gone.  In all this testing this is actual measured 200 feet and straight in line, open space from the transmitter antenna to the receiver in my hand. There is nothing at all between me with a radio and the transmitter antenna, and I'm holding the radio with the antenna vertical, just like on the transmitter. 

Then I hopped in the car, the handy parked outside car -- a 2010 Ford Escape. Drove down the block.  I'll say one thing, the audio from this transmitter is quite good, especially considering I did nothing to set the level except listen on a portable radio, but it really did sound good. Obviously in the car it sounded great as I drove by the transmitter, but when you're driving it doesn't take long to get past 200 feet, and again it was getting noisy by 200 feet and not much more than 4 car lengths past my marker for 200 feet I basically lost it, the noise took over and although the sound was there it wasn't listenable and in a few more feet it was gone.  I also drove around the block to the east and west and reception was marginal but I could hear it. When I got down to the end of the parallel streets it was gone. But remember the transmitter was about 3 feet off the driveway on sawhorses, so the signal was going through houses to get to my car. 

Then, just to see if it made a difference, I took two 24" wire test leads with alligator clips on the ends, hooked them together for 48 inches, clipped this to the top of the transmitter antenna and clipped it up to the top of a 2x4 to get it up in the air.  Did the same thing with the Tec Sun. Readings were higher, especially near -- e.g. the three meter mark went from 41 to 43 dbu, at 40 feet the 34 went to 40 dbu, the 11 at 100 feet was up to 21, the 7 dbu at 140 feet was up to 11,  but again, by the time I got out to 200 feet it was pretty much gone -- I *maybe* got ten feet more before it was gone. 

Now I know that dbu from a meter such as this can't be used to determine actual field strength but maybe Rich can put this into perspective a bit for us?  Hopefully in the next few days I'll get out there with the R-506 and get an actual accurate field intensity reading at 3 meters and see what we're actually working with.  I just didn't have the time and ambition to get that setup today.  But if field intensity readings at 3 meters are near 250 uV/m this will pretty much show a legal transmitter, far as I can tell is solid to about 200 feet as predicted.  And that was outside, line of sight with nothing but air between me and the transmitter!

When I have more actual numbers I'll post the into in this thread. 

Tim in Bovey

In light of the recent move of WRCR to 1700 kHz, there may be users of the 10 kHz bandwidth SSTran AMT-3000 and AMT-5000 transmitters, in the Mid Atlantic and New England regions, who have been using 1700 kHz (even just around the house) and are now confronted with the task of finding a new frequency. I just found out from Phil Bolyn that there is a way to program 10 kHz SSTrans to operate at 1710 kHz, even though it was never published in the orignal owners/assembly manual.

Here is the 8-position DIP switch positions that will produce a carrier at 1710 kHz in these units:

1) ON 2) OFF 3) ON 4) OFF 5) ON 6) OFF 7) ON 8) OFF

ON=Up OFF=Down

It should be noted that the scheme published for 1710 with 9 kHz units does not work with the 10 kHz units. You must use the above scheme for 10 kHz units.

Also of interest is the fact that Phil has compiled an expanded list of frequency schemes for the 10 kHz models that range from 20 kHz to 2560 kHz(!). So if you've ever had aspirations to experiment with lowfers (adding a 1 watt linear amp) or with Part 15 broadcasting in the 120 meter shortwave band, you can now do so by asking Phil to send you a PDF of the expanded list. Just keep in mind that the standard carrier width in the shortwave spectrum is 5 kHz, so leave plenty of space around established services such as WWV's 2500 kHz signal. 

I've been asked to play oldies music at a local car show.  But my Rangemaster is locked into 1620.  Will most -- or any -- pre-expanded band car radios be able to receive and play a signal at 1620?  Anybody had any experience with this?

This is posted under "Transmitters" because I consider an online radio server to be a true form of Part 15 transmitter, look at all the Part 15 Notices on the routers, motherboards, soundcards, and all, and I'm talking now about my radio servers. 

It is even possible to have a backup transmitter (server) which came in handy when I installed the new version of Icecast Server, V 2.5 beta, requiring a shut-down of V 2.4.1.

To avoid listener down-time I ran a Shoutcast Server matching the Icecast specs, 64kbps, 22.05kHz, stereo.

This was lucky because the changeover took two days because of my slow success in getting the new Icecast software to start. Once it did start I ceremoniously ran both servers for a day before shutting down the Shoutcast Backup Sever.

Online streaming is antenna free!!

i still would like to get a good signal am and / or fm up at the pool in our complex which is about 250-300ft away from me. my main transmitters are a Waio BR8000 certified part 15 fm transmitter and a procaster for am.

i have another procaster, some surplus UPS with good batteries i can scrounge, i am sure i have a PLL fm portable somewhere.

i am thinking a fm yagi wired to a fm portable to pick up off the air my part 15 fm and feed that into the procaster and put it all in a weatherproof enclosure with a solar panel on a mast close to the pool area.

it will be conpletely self contained and self sufficient and not reliant on anyones internet or elctric.

it would be nice if i could obtain permission from the complex manager to install it out of the way somewhere close to the pool or find a resident on a second floor close to the pool who would let me munt it on their porch.

just an idea i have been playing with. i still need to find a lockable weatherproof enclosure and a solar panel of sufficient size and a charge controller likely find both cheap at harbor frieght and to either buy or build a fm yagi.

what do you guys think? i think a good sensitive dc powered portable connected to a yagi pointed in the direction of my part 15 fm should make it 300ft even with some obstructions.

Part 74 of the FCC Rules have provision for 50 mW FM transmitters such as this Comtek unit:

http://comtek.com/bst-25/

Such transmitters are authorized for broadcast production locations, film/video on-location, and live entertainment applications. Of the 119 possible frequencies spanning TV channels 5 & 6 this can be set for 87.7 MHz for use with FM receivers.

Atrain radio might qualify because he has a TV version of his radio show on Sstream, Bob Felmly no doubt qualifies because he does regular live broadcast productions for LPFM station WCFI, KDX would qualify because we have KDX-TV and the video production facility which was my profession from 1990 to 2000, and by generating feeds to a TV webcam everything would be set.

Contact Comtek and discuss your plans, they will guide you along.

If there is a TV station using a channel you can't use it.

Jost for fun I plugged the following values in:

Power:0.0000002

Ant Gain: 0.0

Transmission Line Loss: 0.0

Transmitter Antenna Height above Ground: 1 m

Receiver Antenna Height above ground: 1 m

Frequency 98.1 mHz

Signal covers about 13 homes or about 300 feet from the transmitter.

This Chinese radio can be windebanded to cover these frequencies, but what would it need to avoid spurious emissions? The 80,40,20,and 10 meter bands are filtered as standard. Any help would be gratefully received! I am in the UK, so would like to use the amateur 2km band (135-137 khz band). We can transmit at 1 watt, the output would also need a slider from 5 watts. How to do that would also be a help.

We have decided to have two separate but equal groups since the ALPB was first meant to help folks with Radio programming and the equipment that exists at present. This way the initiative to increase the field strength for FM can be met. However as a suggestion by Station 8 and Mram we should consider all of part 15 in this activist group. So anyone else who wants to be a part of this group and your already an ALPB member or who want to become an ALPB member you'll have access to two separate but equal groups that can help you with part 15. The original ALPB and the 2nd (I have not come up with a better name yet than Pro FM maybe Part 15 Initiative) since we are wanting to be activists for improving power and Range for SW, LW, AM, FM.  We'll meet at a different time than the ALPB but use the Teamspeak server. It does work well. Also I'll need someone willing to do a Facebook page and or a website for the Initiative. This should also be talked about on the ALPB Facebook page so those who join the ALPB mostly to get these things done can do so through the activist group Part 15 Initiative. I actually like that name better than Pro FM.  Our Websie should have a forum or chat room and be password protected where you have to be a member to see anything on the site.  I want to keep this from the Anti FM trolls out there.  We can talk freely on the site without fear of backlash but there will not be flame wars and name calling to each other here.  It will be an Acvivist group dead set, hard core but done right.  There will be facts and figures to back what we have planned.  So I want to know who is interested in the new group?  Members should state their interested.  Then Join the ALPB (But remember this is just for the server which we use and you'll also get the access of the ALPB related stuff).  We may report from time to time to the ALPB what we have done or they too can access the Part 15 Initiative site, channel on Teamspeak.  I'm quite sure this will have a far better effect on what we want than before.  Best Regards to All.

The Legacy

Part 15 Initiative!